In the first part of the interview with Karin Van Roy, CHRO at Arvesta, we already discussed how the HR landscape has changed. But what role does an office actually play in it?

We were talking before about how you handled remote working in COVID. I thought that was quite striking because very often, or at least in the first months after COVID, you heard all the time that people had to be lured back to the office, we have to make the office environment as pleasant as possible so that we don't force people, but that they themselves are very eager to come. So is that something you consciously don't really participate in?

Implicitly, yes. We have Thirsty Thursdays once a month. Then there is a drink starting at 4 p.m. On November 6, we are moving to another office. Then, for example, there was a little presentation about what it will look like with ice cream and drinks. So it's cool to see everyone again. Often on Tuesdays and Thursdays because that's when most people are in the office.

That's still non-committal then?

Yes, absolutely. But we do see people coming to that. So people know there's going to be a lot of people and that's pretty nice.

Speaking of the office environment itself. I suppose there is a difference between some hubs and HQ though?

Few, we really try to mimic that. Of course that doesn't go all at once, but in each of the hubs you will find the same type of table, the same colors and decoration. Of course that doesn't go all at once.

Actually even before Covid, we had started working around three pillars. Engaged people, that goes without saying. But also around inspiring workplaces and jobs of the future. I don't want the syndrome that at some point there will be 200 people here who can't work digitally. That's the people's fault, but also the employer's fault. You have to pull people into everything that is happening. Everyone can do that. Maybe not as quickly, but everyone can. Some people don't want to, but that's their own choice.

For jobs of the future, we're very much into automation, robotics and everything that's coming up. We are definitely looking at that and also how we can meaningfully retrain people so they can be doing other things. I also always see the war for talent, I don't believe in that 100%. I think if you treasure hunt enough in your own company there are a lot of opportunities. Let's put our Latin into that first instead of complaining that nobody wants to come work for us.

Then you have inspiring workplaces. Our stores have already been completely revamped. They are now much more pleasant places to work. In September, for example, we will start working on the social spaces in Merksem. In that sense, we were already working very hard on that and then Covid came along and that actually fit the picture perfectly.

What helped us in this is making our purpose clear. You can say we are important for tomorrow's agriculture, but suddenly everything was closed. People then started thinking - if we have no more grain, no board next year. Ukraine crisis came on top of that. Then suddenly we became an essential sector. Then we could also say to our people that we are indispensable as an important link in that agricultural chain. People also started to realize that perhaps wine from Chile was not the best option. It is still sprayed with things that have long been banned here, as well as your footprint. If a ship makes a mistake, it's bye bye wine. So that short chain is more important than ever. That has done us good as a company, certainly for the culture. People realized that they were doing something meaningful. Your disbelievers suddenly became believers, too.

I heard from another company manager who said everyone had to work in the office during Covid. HR warned him that they were going to have control, but so he thought they were ironing people at home. Just looking at work in such an old-fashioned way, I can't stand that. If you really want to go for it and believe in it with your colleagues, you probably won't iron. Or maybe you will, but then if you have a deadline at 11:59 p.m., you're going to meet it.

I wonder about that, too. I imagine when you started at HR that they looked at people and human capital differently? It was probably even called differently?

The personnel department. Then it became personnel and organization because it became clear that organizing work was not so obvious either. After that, it has actually been anything. It doesn't matter what you call it. People were really looked at in Hay points and in job descriptions. That's a rating system. From so many points you get a car and from so many points you have windows in your office. The most ridiculous thing. You couldn't earn those points, it was really a title.

So you could be a very bad worker with many points and a very good one with few points. That meritocracy was also much less there. That was all much more mechanical. That was really a corporate thing. I believe in something behind it. Reward systems, but that's not sacrosanct. Back then if it didn't fit in the excel sheet it just didn't go. Fortunately, that's all changed.

What are some other major differences you see?

The role of the leader. I always say that I have the biggest team in the company. That's not the 44 people on my team, but actually everyone at Arvesta. Because if a leader doesn't convey what your culture is or how you treat people then you have a problem. The world has become more fluid. You can't afford to wait until the next round to adapt. Everybody used to sit in their corner. I finally think common sense is winning.

Another difference is that when I worked in the beginning everyone thought the big difference was the product. And that's not true because then every wave or iPhone would be equally successful despite the vendor. Then they said it was because of the process, but they still saw differences. Suddenly everyone realized that the big difference is made by people. And I think that's the most beautiful change.

Important question - how would you describe those changes in terms of the office environment? What is possible today that was totally out of the question back then?

The cheerful. That it shouldn't all be just serious. We started building the office around people more than the office around job classification. We also really started working around the different types of people you have. The quiet people who like to focus and work alone, for example. Coming together is more important because you can actually work from anywhere.

Also community building. Exuding your culture.

In one of the previous episodes, we talked to OTA Insights. They have a ball pool in the office, a music room, ... To where can you go in your opinion?

We also go pretty far. We also have an employee assistance program, for example. Because a person doesn't step in here and only think Arvesta at 8 and be mom and dad again at five. Your day is not compartmentalized into hours without, hours with problems. As an employer, you can't always do anything about that. But recently I heard a real example of an employer offering a divorce coach in the event of a divorce. Then I think somewhere you still have to keep the line between private and work. And do something after hours then you shouldn't make that mandatory and come to that on your own if you feel like it. That to me is a very important one. In the end we are an employer and there is a little opportunistic side to that as I said. We also have to deliver, meet budgets and perform. For me, the boundary between private and work is really important.

I find it interesting that you say that that boundary needs to be guarded. I had recently heard a podcast by Ester Perel. She said just the opposite. That that is becoming much more blurred and even that the CEO is taking on a more priest-like role. What's your take on that?

If someone comes to tell me something I will never turn it down, but I don't think that's any different or more than it used to be. You can't expect your leaders to be able to deal with all of that either. Those at that priest like to deal with it will have done so in the past. I think it has become more fluid because we are more open in general. There used to be no talking if you didn't feel good, but is that the trend - I don't know.

Just now I heard you talk about the jobs of the future. How can we guide our workers into a more digital future, for example? How do you look at AI and everything that's happening? What would be the impact of AI?

That's definitely going to play a role. I get a great presentation next week on how da AI can create a training program based on a set of needs. So why wouldn't we use that? It will never completely replace it, I think you are going to have a good co-pilot there.

The future will tell. Then I can only thank you for the interview - very interesting to see everything and be here! Good luck to you all.