In the first part of the interview with Pieter-Jan Van Der Burgt, office manager at OTA Insights, we already talked about their crazy ball pit and why they chose it. Now we're going to take a closer look at how they keep that culture alive when you endure major international growth.  

How do you create such a close-knit, close and, above all, motivated team?

Yes, but we also look at team fit when it comes to onboarding or hiring. That's really an essential key piece. You can have as many diplomas or be as smart or have experience as we feel that it won't work in the group, that that person doesn't benefit the atmosphere, then it's just not going to work.

Yes, I can imagine that as you grow that becomes more and more difficult of course? And how do you keep such a culture alive as you grow? Because organizing something like this for 10, 20 people is completely different than for 100 people, of course?

Yes, now that we are scaling up and becoming a large company, also internationally, we do feel that this culture is under pressure. But on the one hand, you have people like me, who are also hired to do things in a more organized way. But when push comes to shove, it has to come from within the group itself. You can put as many pizzas and chips there as you want, but if no one wants to come. We are very lucky. That is from the beginning that they really have an atmosphere of agreement and taking care of each other. But it has to come from within themselves.

So if I understand correctly, the office experience is also a tool to attract people, but do you expect the profiles you attract to contribute to it?

Yes, but just because of who they are. They don't always have to actively participate or not everyone can be a jump-in-the-field. You just let everyone do it. If they want to organize something, we have certain rules in terms of budget to arrange things a bit. But other than that, all the freedom.

We don't have an environment to attract people to the office, but an environment where when you come to the office, you are immediately at ease. So we really go for that feeling of being at home. You can come and work here at your leisure with colleagues with whom you have a good relationship. That if you do come here for a day, that you are satisfied that you are here.

So really an office as a safe space. Because you so often hear the work-from-home culture of: "phew my boss asks to come to the office." but here it doesn't exist?

Be careful, before COVID we also had to come to the office almost every day. But that was also the rule at 95% of the companies at the time. But COVID was a crowbar in that area. And now it's like: look at it in function of your work, discuss it with your lead and if you mutually agree, go ahead.

Yes, and if you have motivated people, they will work hard anyway, wherever they are at that moment because they just like to do it and support the same goal.

If you get the trust, you give a lot of trust back because you don't want to betray it. If you feel that your boss trusts you, you will also be less likely to say "" when you don't feel like it. That is not the case here.

In this way, you also create people who are a poster child for your company and, of course, attract other people. All these things, do you also notice that with retention or absenteeism?

That's not so bad here. Of course, if you're sick, you're sick. If you've seen an emergency in your mind or you've seen something for it. We also have a very young team, so there are more and more children involved. That flexibility is really there.

So basically the loose and good vibes that the office exudes manifests itself in flexibility or how that people are treated.

You just get - to put it in a big word - the ownership of your work and time. The work has to be done, but whether you start at 6:30 a.m. and leave at 3 p.m. or come in at 10 a.m. and are here until 8 p.m., that's completely free. We'll see it in the results.

But it has to be, because the bar is set high. It is also deliberately placed high here, in all areas. But in an atmosphere where it is appreciated.

Because work in 2023 is no longer just doing your job and being able to pay your invoices, but is also mainly about being part of something. Do you also notice that it is becoming a kind of community here?

Yes, that's a bunch of comrades. These are colleagues and that is work, but you still feel that everyone is hanging together. They really take care of each other. We encourage that too. If you detect that something is wrong, talk to me.

Last weekend we went on a team building with a big campfire and with the boats in Ghent. And I said to my boss: this is no longer a company, it's a youth movement. You just have to make sure they have their sugar waffle and their campfire and they're happy. When I talk about our people, I never say my colleagues, but I really talk about 'my guests'. And my guests need to be pampered.

So you also do a lot of activities outside of work?

Sunday we went out to the Fiertel with a number of people. In August we are going to do the death march with a dozen people. Can you come to an activity, good! Then we encourage that. But the larger the group, the more people are sick or have to take care of their children. Anyway, then it's the next time.

So there are no strings attached? You can't force something like that, of course.

No, definitely not. You also have colleagues who are not extroverted or have less need for it. But that doesn't mean that they don't appreciate that there is a piece of candy when they arrive or that someone comes to ask how it is or that they come down. But everyone at their own pace.

So also people who don't need that social aspect and all those extra activities, that's perfectly okay?

The more they come, the better, because then we see 'our guests'. But if that doesn't fit, no problem. It's still about your work.

You may also often hear from other companies that if you can't come a few times due to circumstances or don't need it as much, there can be some friction.

I've said it a lot: we have an office here where there are a lot of opinions, but where there is very little judging. It's more like: "well, it's been a long time since he's come to the office." They are curious, but above all they are worried. Judging is not appreciated at all here when that happens.

That's great. Because yes, different characters, extroverted and introverted, have different needs.

I can assure you, there are strong characters among them.

"In general, you just have to genuinely care about your people. If you're intrinsically like 'that's my staff, they have to work, period' you can throw a pizza party once a year, but they'll be standing there with a long face."

Do you have a recommendation for offices that are not so concerned with the design of their office or with office experience?

Hire a good office manager. I will give a general and personal answer. Personal. When I started here, the position didn't exist yet. So they didn't really know what profile they were looking for. In retrospect, we also say: what has become very clear to us because you started here is that if you ever leave, we have to find someone who really puts that soul into it and tries to bind the community. Of course, it is not one person, but someone who tries to maintain that and is sincere with it.

But in general, you just have to genuinely care about your people. If you're intrinsically like, "that's my staff and they have to work, period," then you can throw a pizza party once a year, but they're going to be standing there with a long face. Here it's rather: "When are we going to do something again?" or "are we going to do something?" or "gosh, not this week because it was already pretty intense last week."

Recently, I had also talked to a CEO and he said that his office manager doesn't bring in money directly, but if that person wasn't here for the team, he would have so many other problems that would eventually affect the revenue, of course.

That's right, the engineers are working on the product, marketing and sales. But I'll say it: office management can vary from company to company. Here, it's more about organization. With the other offices in Brussels and London, I try to help a bit, but that's from a distance.

So how do you go about that when you internationalise?

You're trying to keep your community on the same page. You have your branding, the same mission, team buildings. The monthly all-hands call, when everyone calls in from anywhere. But also the bosses who deliberately travel to Singapore, to London, to Denver just to stay in touch with everyone. This is a very conscious focus.

I'm a huge fan of your approach. I think it's really quite exceptional, especially for a company of that magnitude.

Any boss can throw money at something for a design office or a certain concept, but it's your soul that you have to mean it and that it comes from yourself. If you don't have that, it's never going to work. But I haven't come across this much. I've already seen that it's not like that everywhere.

I think that's super nice to end. You are perfectly at home in a very nice office. Thank you for your time and we would love to use the ball pool!